Difference between revisions of "Meeting: talking debugger with Jocelyn at ETH"
(→Meetings) |
(→Organisation) |
||
Line 9: | Line 9: | ||
= Organisation = | = Organisation = | ||
− | + | ||
== Date == | == Date == | ||
* arrival: tuesday 18th of December, Zurich HB either at 13h56 or 12h56 | * arrival: tuesday 18th of December, Zurich HB either at 13h56 or 12h56 | ||
Line 22: | Line 22: | ||
− | References | + | = References = |
* http://dev.eiffel.com/CddBranch | * http://dev.eiffel.com/CddBranch | ||
* http://se.ethz.ch/people/leitner/publications/cdd_leitner_esec_fse_2007.pdf | * http://se.ethz.ch/people/leitner/publications/cdd_leitner_esec_fse_2007.pdf | ||
* http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1082983.1083251 | * http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1082983.1083251 | ||
− | Please complete the following list with your items | + | = Please complete the following list with your items = |
* General dicussion about the CDD idea | * General dicussion about the CDD idea | ||
Line 42: | Line 42: | ||
(it doesn't care whether it gets the gui one or the console one). | (it doesn't care whether it gets the gui one or the console one). | ||
**** Is it okay to retrieve the whole application state through ABSTRACT_DEBUG_VALUE's? Seems to become really slow with big applications. | **** Is it okay to retrieve the whole application state through ABSTRACT_DEBUG_VALUE's? Seems to become really slow with big applications. | ||
+ | Jocelyn: What do you mean by retrieving the whole application state ? | ||
+ | however, in the debugger, there are currently too many object representations: DUMP_VALUE, DEBUGGED_OBJECT, ABSTRACT_DEBUG_VALUE ... I feel this is too much, and I'd like to find to redesign this part. However, ABSTRACT_DEBUG_VALUE is more likely to be the more stable interface for the future. So it is best sticking with it for now. | ||
+ | |||
*** Console debugger crashes (Arno can you provide details please) | *** Console debugger crashes (Arno can you provide details please) | ||
**** TTY debugger seems to have problems when exception in infix features occurs -> not possible to use tty menu anymore | **** TTY debugger seems to have problems when exception in infix features occurs -> not possible to use tty menu anymore | ||
Line 58: | Line 61: | ||
**** How can we use the debugger for it | **** How can we use the debugger for it | ||
***** old values | ***** old values | ||
+ | Jocelyn: for now, old values are not yet fully supported by the debugger, maybe for 6.3 ... | ||
***** invariants | ***** invariants | ||
+ | Jocelyn: we hope to improve that part related to invariant soon, since for now the debugger is not helpful with invariant violation/ | ||
+ | |||
**** How can we use ES capture and "Review" for it? | **** How can we use ES capture and "Review" for it? | ||
+ | Jocelyn: for what ? | ||
+ | |||
** Build system needs | ** Build system needs | ||
*** How to do it properly on Windows? (Stefan, please provide details here) | *** How to do it properly on Windows? (Stefan, please provide details here) | ||
Line 65: | Line 73: | ||
Jocelyn: Those days, I am integrating+updating works from es-make team (Bernd and others) into the trunk, | Jocelyn: Those days, I am integrating+updating works from es-make team (Bernd and others) into the trunk, | ||
this way it should be much more easier to build the EiffelStudio tools. Still in progress. | this way it should be much more easier to build the EiffelStudio tools. Still in progress. | ||
+ | By the way, I won't commit anything for 6.0, it would be better for you to switch to 6.1 (or trunk .. 6.2) regarding building process | ||
+ | |||
** Guided tour through debugger | ** Guided tour through debugger | ||
+ | Jocelyn: do you mean ... a tutorial how to use the debugger ? or you want me to present how the debugger is designed during the meeting ? | ||
** Guided tour through build system | ** Guided tour through build system | ||
+ | Jocelyn: same question as above | ||
** Unable to debug ES with ES (only Stefan and Andreas). Maybe Jocelyn can have a quick look. | ** Unable to debug ES with ES (only Stefan and Andreas). Maybe Jocelyn can have a quick look. | ||
+ | Jocelyn: it is definitally possible on Windows, and I used it on linux too, but maybe there are some issues with pipe sharing ... (internal to the Eiffel debugger) | ||
** Capture and Replay | ** Capture and Replay | ||
*** Compare ES Capture and Replay and Sel. Capture and Replay | *** Compare ES Capture and Replay and Sel. Capture and Replay |
Latest revision as of 03:07, 17 December 2007
This page is to plan the agenda for the meeting we plan to have with Jocelyn when he visits ETH in Zurich.
Involved parties:
- Jocelyn
- Bertrand
- Andreas
- Stefan
- Arno
Contents
Organisation
Date
- arrival: tuesday 18th of December, Zurich HB either at 13h56 or 12h56
- departure: wednesday around 14h..
- tuesday night, hotel, or hosted by ETH people (but not in the streets)
Meetings
- tuesday: 14:00 -> 15:00 .. about build process, ... (Arno)
- tuesday: 15:00 -> ... : debugger related points (Andreas, Arno)
- wednesday: morning: continuation of debugger related points (Andreas, Arno starting at 10)
- wednesday: afternoon .. Jocelyn will be on train, and ETH can do a final meeting to "compute" all the information ;)
References
- http://dev.eiffel.com/CddBranch
- http://se.ethz.ch/people/leitner/publications/cdd_leitner_esec_fse_2007.pdf
- http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1082983.1083251
Please complete the following list with your items
- General dicussion about the CDD idea
- Where should it go?
- What are the biggest obstacles?
- CDD debuggers needs
- How to best do fg debuging of test cases
- How to best do bg extraction of test cases
- Is our approach of using the debugger in console mode the right one?
Jocelyn: For now, there is GUI debugger, TTY debugger, and I guess CDD debugger, but you are not obliged to be in "console" mode (one can imagine a HTTP debugger, or even a silent debugger)
Andreas: The CDD test case extractor must be given an extractor (it doesn't care whether it gets the gui one or the console one).
- Is it okay to retrieve the whole application state through ABSTRACT_DEBUG_VALUE's? Seems to become really slow with big applications.
Jocelyn: What do you mean by retrieving the whole application state ? however, in the debugger, there are currently too many object representations: DUMP_VALUE, DEBUGGED_OBJECT, ABSTRACT_DEBUG_VALUE ... I feel this is too much, and I'd like to find to redesign this part. However, ABSTRACT_DEBUG_VALUE is more likely to be the more stable interface for the future. So it is best sticking with it for now.
- Console debugger crashes (Arno can you provide details please)
- TTY debugger seems to have problems when exception in infix features occurs -> not possible to use tty menu anymore
- Sometimes combination of other tty functions (e.g. displaying all classes in system)
- Console debugger crashes (Arno can you provide details please)
Jocelyn: TTY debugger is not perfect (not enough time to work on it), what should be done is 1) change the "menu like control" by a "shell like control" 2) having the debugger controller in a separate thread, this way we could support "interrupt" and so on 3) ... many improvement, and support all the debugger functionality
- ok, then do it :-). No, seriously, the question is if and how we can improve the tty debugger just to enable system level tests for our cdd
- Console Menu (again Arno)
- Multiple debuggers at the same time (large long term issue)
- Console Menu (again Arno)
Jocelyn: That might be possible, but this won't be that easy for now, however, I have been changing progressively the design to be more flexible, and to allow that in the future. Maybe ISE could plan this for 6.3 with other major design changes.
- Prestate capturing
- How can we use the debugger for it
- old values
- How can we use the debugger for it
- Prestate capturing
Jocelyn: for now, old values are not yet fully supported by the debugger, maybe for 6.3 ...
- invariants
Jocelyn: we hope to improve that part related to invariant soon, since for now the debugger is not helpful with invariant violation/
- How can we use ES capture and "Review" for it?
Jocelyn: for what ?
- Build system needs
- How to do it properly on Windows? (Stefan, please provide details here)
- (by Stefan) well, i am getting used to it. The problems with the updated build scripts is that they might not be compatible with 6.0, which cdd is based on? (i admit i did not try)
- Build system needs
Jocelyn: Those days, I am integrating+updating works from es-make team (Bernd and others) into the trunk, this way it should be much more easier to build the EiffelStudio tools. Still in progress. By the way, I won't commit anything for 6.0, it would be better for you to switch to 6.1 (or trunk .. 6.2) regarding building process
- Guided tour through debugger
Jocelyn: do you mean ... a tutorial how to use the debugger ? or you want me to present how the debugger is designed during the meeting ?
- Guided tour through build system
Jocelyn: same question as above
- Unable to debug ES with ES (only Stefan and Andreas). Maybe Jocelyn can have a quick look.
Jocelyn: it is definitally possible on Windows, and I used it on linux too, but maybe there are some issues with pipe sharing ... (internal to the Eiffel debugger)
- Capture and Replay
- Compare ES Capture and Replay and Sel. Capture and Replay
- Capture and Replay
Jocelyn: ES provides "Execution Recording and Replay", or should I say "Review"
- What are strengths and weaknesses?
- Can approaches be combined for mutal benefit?
- Where to go from here?