Talk:EiffelStudio Internationalization - Revision history

Ted: Removed incorrect insertion.

2008-07-07T15:09:28Z

Removed incorrect insertion.

Ted: /* All XML files support all of Unicode */

2008-07-07T11:22:28Z

‎All XML files support all of Unicode

Colin-adams at 06:20, 7 July 2008

2008-07-07T06:20:15Z

Ted: /* All XML files support all of Unicode */

2008-07-03T16:13:33Z

‎All XML files support all of Unicode

Colin-adams at 14:13, 3 July 2008

2008-07-03T14:13:31Z

Ted: /* All XML files support all of Unicode */

2008-07-02T15:29:57Z

‎All XML files support all of Unicode

Ted: /* All XML files support all of Unicode */

2008-07-02T15:25:08Z

‎All XML files support all of Unicode

Ted: /* Notes term */

2008-07-02T15:18:31Z

‎Notes term

Ted: /* Auto-encoding detection */

2008-07-02T15:13:45Z

‎Auto-encoding detection

Ted: /* Dont use UTF-16 */

2008-07-02T15:04:49Z

‎Dont use UTF-16

@@ Line 72: / Line 72: @@
 This is one way we are thinking of. But ideally this needs parsing. Maybe specifying encoding as compiler argument is good enough, or make it into .ecf files.
 --[[User:Ted|Ted]] 08:18, 2 July 2008 (PDT)
 == All XML files support all of Unicode ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:22, 7 July 2008
Line 97:		Line 97:
	And it is quite safe to serialize as ISO-8859-1 if you wish. No XML editor can render it incorrectly.		And it is quite safe to serialize as ISO-8859-1 if you wish. No XML editor can render it incorrectly.
	--[[User:Colin-adams\|Colin-adams]] 23:20, 6 July 2008 (PDT)		--[[User:Colin-adams\|Colin-adams]] 23:20, 6 July 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	== All XML files support all of Unicode ==
		+
		+	The line that says ECF files, etc., will need a Unicode encoding is not true. All XML files, no matter what their encoding, support the entire Unicode character set.
		+	--[[User:Colin-adams\|Colin-adams]] 22:41, 1 July 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	What I mean is specific to EiffelStudio in which we only put iso-8859-1 as encoding of ecfs. This char set is not sufficient, since users will be able to put any Unicode chars in project settings, for example, descriptions. And other internal implementations using XML, like diagram storage, metrics storage may not even take encoding into account. These parts need to be adapted. --[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 08:25, 2 July 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	One thing I am not so sure is whether Gobo XML parser has supported encodings rather than Unicode ones. For example, GB2312. (This implies ability to convert between GB2312 and UTF8 etc.) --[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 08:29, 2 July 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	It IS sufficient.
		+	No matter what the encoding, all Unicode characters (within the limits of the XML version - which means 1.0 for Gobo) can be represented. That is what character references are for. E.g. ŋ is outside the range of Latin-1, but you can still specify it in an XML file with encoding="ISO8859-1".
		+	And no, Gobo does not support GB2312, but it does support UTF-8 (all XML parsers must support UTF-8 and UTF-16). But this is not very relevant.
		+	--[[User:Colin-adams\|Colin-adams]] 07:13, 3 July 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	I see what you mean. It is good to know Gobo takes them as what they are (no information lose). But I am a little surprised that knowing the encoding Gobo doesn't return meaningful strings (in UTF8), but simply the stream taken directly from byte sequence. (Correct me if I am wrong.) So EiffelStudio still needs to handle conversions manually because UTF-32 is used internally and only with known encoding strings can be correctly rendered.
		+	This means we need to convert strings into an encoding the XML file specifies (none implies UTF8). Then converting most Unicode chars to iso-8859-1 is not correct anymore. And can only be safe converting the byte sequence read from XML from the encoding it specifies to UTF32. In any case, I prefer to use UTF8 for all XML files as default.
		+	I am also afraid that using "iso-8859-1" to carry strings in other encoding would make some XML editors incorrectly render them.
		+	--[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 09:13, 3 July 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	Why do you think Gobo doesn't return meaningful strings? Of course it does.
		+	You don't have to worry about any of this. The XML specification, written oer 10 years ago, sorted all this out.
		+
		+	And it is quite safe to serialize as ISO-8859-1 if you wish. No XML editor can render it incorrectly.
		+	--[[User:Colin-adams\|Colin-adams]] 23:20, 6 July 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	I realize I should not say "XML file must support Unicode encoding", because that's a feature of XML. I meant was more that XML handlers must take Unicode into account. Those handlers in ES definitely need adaption, No matter how Gobo part deals with encodings. And thank you, Colin, for correcting me how Gobo XML handles encoding. I will look more into Gobo XML on encodings before really starting working on this part. <br>
		+	Otherwise, from my experiments, no editor/renderer(VS, IE, Firefox) correctly displays Chinese with "<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>". The reason for me is simple, ISO-8859-1 does not define Chinese characters.<br>
		+	--[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 04:22, 7 July 2008 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:20, 7 July 2008
Line 91:		Line 91:
	I am also afraid that using "iso-8859-1" to carry strings in other encoding would make some XML editors incorrectly render them.		I am also afraid that using "iso-8859-1" to carry strings in other encoding would make some XML editors incorrectly render them.
	--[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 09:13, 3 July 2008 (PDT)		--[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 09:13, 3 July 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	Why do you think Gobo doesn't return meaningful strings? Of course it does.
		+	You don't have to worry about any of this. The XML specification, written oer 10 years ago, sorted all this out.
		+
		+	And it is quite safe to serialize as ISO-8859-1 if you wish. No XML editor can render it incorrectly.
		+	--[[User:Colin-adams\|Colin-adams]] 23:20, 6 July 2008 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:13, 3 July 2008
Line 86:		Line 86:
	And no, Gobo does not support GB2312, but it does support UTF-8 (all XML parsers must support UTF-8 and UTF-16). But this is not very relevant.		And no, Gobo does not support GB2312, but it does support UTF-8 (all XML parsers must support UTF-8 and UTF-16). But this is not very relevant.
	--[[User:Colin-adams\|Colin-adams]] 07:13, 3 July 2008 (PDT)		--[[User:Colin-adams\|Colin-adams]] 07:13, 3 July 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	I see what you mean. It is good to know Gobo takes them as what they are (no information lose). But I am a little surprised that knowing the encoding Gobo doesn't return meaningful strings (in UTF8), but simply the stream taken directly from byte sequence. (Correct me if I am wrong.) So EiffelStudio still needs to handle conversions manually because UTF-32 is used internally and only with known encoding strings can be correctly rendered.
		+	This means we need to convert strings into an encoding the XML file specifies (none implies UTF8). Then converting most Unicode chars to iso-8859-1 is not correct anymore. And can only be safe converting the byte sequence read from XML from the encoding it specifies to UTF32. In any case, I prefer to use UTF8 for all XML files as default.
		+	I am also afraid that using "iso-8859-1" to carry strings in other encoding would make some XML editors incorrectly render them.
		+	--[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 09:13, 3 July 2008 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:13, 3 July 2008
Line 81:		Line 81:

	One thing I am not so sure is whether Gobo XML parser has supported encodings rather than Unicode ones. For example, GB2312. (This implies ability to convert between GB2312 and UTF8 etc.) --[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 08:29, 2 July 2008 (PDT)		One thing I am not so sure is whether Gobo XML parser has supported encodings rather than Unicode ones. For example, GB2312. (This implies ability to convert between GB2312 and UTF8 etc.) --[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 08:29, 2 July 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	It IS sufficient.
		+	No matter what the encoding, all Unicode characters (within the limits of the XML version - which means 1.0 for Gobo) can be represented. That is what character references are for. E.g. ŋ is outside the range of Latin-1, but you can still specify it in an XML file with encoding="ISO8859-1".
		+	And no, Gobo does not support GB2312, but it does support UTF-8 (all XML parsers must support UTF-8 and UTF-16). But this is not very relevant.
		+	--[[User:Colin-adams\|Colin-adams]] 07:13, 3 July 2008 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:29, 2 July 2008
Line 79:		Line 79:

	What I mean is specific to EiffelStudio in which we only put iso-8859-1 as encoding of ecfs. This char set is not sufficient, since users will be able to put any Unicode chars in project settings, for example, descriptions. And other internal implementations using XML, like diagram storage, metrics storage may not even take encoding into account. These parts need to be adapted. --[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 08:25, 2 July 2008 (PDT)		What I mean is specific to EiffelStudio in which we only put iso-8859-1 as encoding of ecfs. This char set is not sufficient, since users will be able to put any Unicode chars in project settings, for example, descriptions. And other internal implementations using XML, like diagram storage, metrics storage may not even take encoding into account. These parts need to be adapted. --[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 08:25, 2 July 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	One thing I am not so sure is whether Gobo XML parser has supported encodings rather than Unicode ones. For example, GB2312. (This implies ability to convert between GB2312 and UTF8 etc.) --[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 08:29, 2 July 2008 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:25, 2 July 2008
Line 77:		Line 77:
	The line that says ECF files, etc., will need a Unicode encoding is not true. All XML files, no matter what their encoding, support the entire Unicode character set.		The line that says ECF files, etc., will need a Unicode encoding is not true. All XML files, no matter what their encoding, support the entire Unicode character set.
	--[[User:Colin-adams\|Colin-adams]] 22:41, 1 July 2008 (PDT)		--[[User:Colin-adams\|Colin-adams]] 22:41, 1 July 2008 (PDT)
		+
		+	What I mean is specific to EiffelStudio in which we only put iso-8859-1 as encoding of ecfs. This char set is not sufficient, since users will be able to put any Unicode chars in project settings, for example, descriptions. And other internal implementations using XML, like diagram storage, metrics storage may not even take encoding into account. These parts need to be adapted. --[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 08:25, 2 July 2008 (PDT)

@@ Line 69: / Line 69: @@
 </eiffel>
 --[[User:Colin-adams|Colin-adams]] 09:17, 1 August 2007 (CEST)
 == All XML files support all of Unicode ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:13, 2 July 2008
Line 45:		Line 45:

	--[[User:Colin-adams\|Colin-adams]] 09:09, 1 August 2007 (CEST)		--[[User:Colin-adams\|Colin-adams]] 09:09, 1 August 2007 (CEST)
		+
		+	Yes, one can not tell the encoding accurately. I thought this could be possible done by combination of means. I knew firefox and IE has encoding detection library, but they seem only give the most possible results, not accurate ones.
		+	This part maybe implemented as just "encoding detection" in the end.
		+	--[[User:Ted\|Ted]] 08:13, 2 July 2008 (PDT)

	== Notes term ==		== Notes term ==

@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 UTF-16 is an abomination - it should never be used.
 --[[User:Colin-adams|Colin-adams]] 09:03, 1 August 2007 (CEST)
 == Auto-encoding detection ==